Shea posted the following on November 26, 2008 at 1:24 pm.
This is a tough one. While an intelligent process is essential for a well designed product, the product is the ultimate goal. Other designers may choose to explore the process to better understand the product, but earth people are not interested in how the idea got there, they just want the product. Some designers have a habit of designing for other designers, a habit which may not be effective when designing for the general population. Graphic design should be an egoless profession. When the designer's hand is invisible, the product stands stronger on it's own. Beatrice Warde explains this in her essay The Crystal Goblet from 1955 (linked below). http://gmunch.home.pipeline.com/typo-L/misc/ward.htm
Miss O.R. Hit posted the following on November 27, 2008 at 11:23 am.
This is a tricky one alright. However, I believe that process is exponentially more important than product. That's process with a lower-case P. How could a factory produce a car if not for process? Why is it that a pre-production object goes through a phase labeled R&D? Designed goods don't just spring out of the ground. The product is a sum of all processes.
I'd agree with Shea about earth people, if the poll statement was more specific. But it says design or process IN DESIGN. As if design is in a vacuum. And to designers, the process is the romantic part. It's the graph papers on the drawing board. The xacto knife cuts. The color swatches. That's why a good product is so appealing. It is the child of some immense thought and design. But it would have never existed without immense thought and design.
Jon posted the following on November 27, 2008 at 9:03 pm.
Karl Burkheimer is a furniture designer and woodworker who used to teach at VCU. in one of his lectures he talked about the process of making things, and he said the product is only a residue of the process. That quote really stuck with me and I've thought about it a lot since then. To an extent I agree with him. In terms of a personal art, and a learning experience, process is exponentially more important than product. But, in relation to design, process is only important to the designers. I won't belittle the overall significance of the design process, but I'm going to have to agree with Shea on this one. The goal of design is a form that follows a function, and thus, a useful product.
Lindsay posted the following on November 28, 2008 at 8:47 am.
I agree with you Jon, that process is only important to the designer. To the unknowing public though, they only care about the finished product. For the client who you are working for though, it is important to keep them involved in the process because say you are designing a logo. They will understand the meaning of their mark much more if you explain the reasoning behind it and involve them all along the way.
For me personally, process is the most important part, but the product is what you will remember the process by. The product should be just as gratifying as the process.
Shea posted the following on November 28, 2008 at 7:12 pm.
It's kind of like asking what is more important, the chicken or the egg. You can't have one without the other. But when it all comes down to the nitty gritty the product is what is needed. A client won't care much about what is in your sketch book if you don't have the final solution for them.
Jon posted the following on November 29, 2008 at 2:50 pm.
Again, I can't belittle the importance of either process or product, but the statement has us debating what is MORE important. And in the case of design in general, product has to be more important. You can show you product without your process. But if you show your process and never a product, then that defeats your purpose entirely. Your job as a designer is to solve a problem, and if you never come to that solution, then it doesn't matter how much math you show.
Guido Alvarez posted the following on November 30, 2008 at 2:02 pm.
Is is impossible to have a product without a process.
The more meaningful, highly crafted, and detail oriented the process the more transcendental the product.
Miss O.R. Hit posted the following on November 30, 2008 at 7:24 pm.
I challenge the integrity of this poll's premise. Process and product are codependent. Process is what we call making a lot of semi-products before the final stage of process : the Product. If you were to show a sketchbook (providing you have that piece of process), is that not a product unto itself?
Any kind of creative exertion can be considered a type of product, and the sum total of exertion is called process. The Product (end result) is still a piece of the process.
Likewise, a product is completely reliant on process to exist. When you go to show an audience your newest poster, you are showing them the Product, as well as a piece of the process. Many designers will say that a finished product isn't really finished at all. Why? Because it's often part of an ongoing process.
There is a flaw with this question that wants to split process and product into seperate entities. This is a recipe for disaster, since a split can weaken your process or cheapen your product.
Tony Gregorich posted the following on December 1, 2008 at 2:30 pm.
The process is only important to the designer. But that in-itself makes it more important than the product, because without the designer and the process there would be no product. You can get a product from any point in the process, so the important thing is how the process plays out. It may seem like the industry has placed some sort of importance on the product, but that's really only the client's viewpoint. The industry itself still cares more about the process, as it's the only way to work and teach others.
Katherine Wright posted the following on December 3, 2008 at 5:23 pm.
BUT, Tony, without the product, we have no industry, because then who is paying us to design these things? But, I also agree with what you said, I'm just being contrary.
Miss O.R. Hit posted the following on December 5, 2008 at 8:56 pm.
AHA, without process we have no industry, because then who is designing these things? I say this topic is like asking which is more important. Teal or turquoise? Green apples or Granny Smith? 18-wheelers or semis?
There is no division, these terms "process" and "product" are one and the same.
Shea posted the following on November 26, 2008 at 1:24 pm.
This is a tough one. While an intelligent process is essential for a well designed product, the product is the ultimate goal. Other designers may choose to explore the process to better understand the product, but earth people are not interested in how the idea got there, they just want the product. Some designers have a habit of designing for other designers, a habit which may not be effective when designing for the general population. Graphic design should be an egoless profession. When the designer's hand is invisible, the product stands stronger on it's own. Beatrice Warde explains this in her essay The Crystal Goblet from 1955 (linked below).
Reply to Sheahttp://gmunch.home.pipeline.com/typo-L/misc/ward.htm
Miss O.R. Hit posted the following on November 27, 2008 at 11:23 am.
This is a tricky one alright. However, I believe that process is exponentially more important than product. That's process with a lower-case P. How could a factory produce a car if not for process? Why is it that a pre-production object goes through a phase labeled R&D? Designed goods don't just spring out of the ground. The product is a sum of all processes.
Reply to Miss O.R. HitI'd agree with Shea about earth people, if the poll statement was more specific. But it says design or process IN DESIGN. As if design is in a vacuum. And to designers, the process is the romantic part. It's the graph papers on the drawing board. The xacto knife cuts. The color swatches. That's why a good product is so appealing. It is the child of some immense thought and design. But it would have never existed without immense thought and design.
Jon posted the following on November 27, 2008 at 9:03 pm.
Karl Burkheimer is a furniture designer and woodworker who used to teach at VCU. in one of his lectures he talked about the process of making things, and he said the product is only a residue of the process. That quote really stuck with me and I've thought about it a lot since then. To an extent I agree with him. In terms of a personal art, and a learning experience, process is exponentially more important than product. But, in relation to design, process is only important to the designers. I won't belittle the overall significance of the design process, but I'm going to have to agree with Shea on this one. The goal of design is a form that follows a function, and thus, a useful product.
Reply to JonLindsay posted the following on November 28, 2008 at 8:47 am.
I agree with you Jon, that process is only important to the designer. To the unknowing public though, they only care about the finished product. For the client who you are working for though, it is important to keep them involved in the process because say you are designing a logo. They will understand the meaning of their mark much more if you explain the reasoning behind it and involve them all along the way.
Reply to LindsayFor me personally, process is the most important part, but the product is what you will remember the process by. The product should be just as gratifying as the process.
Shea posted the following on November 28, 2008 at 7:12 pm.
It's kind of like asking what is more important, the chicken or the egg. You can't have one without the other. But when it all comes down to the nitty gritty the product is what is needed. A client won't care much about what is in your sketch book if you don't have the final solution for them.
Reply to SheaJon posted the following on November 29, 2008 at 2:50 pm.
Again, I can't belittle the importance of either process or product, but the statement has us debating what is MORE important. And in the case of design in general, product has to be more important. You can show you product without your process. But if you show your process and never a product, then that defeats your purpose entirely. Your job as a designer is to solve a problem, and if you never come to that solution, then it doesn't matter how much math you show.
Reply to JonGuido Alvarez posted the following on November 30, 2008 at 2:02 pm.
Is is impossible to have a product without a process.
Reply to Guido AlvarezThe more meaningful, highly crafted, and detail oriented the process the more transcendental the product.
Miss O.R. Hit posted the following on November 30, 2008 at 7:24 pm.
I challenge the integrity of this poll's premise. Process and product are codependent. Process is what we call making a lot of semi-products before the final stage of process : the Product. If you were to show a sketchbook (providing you have that piece of process), is that not a product unto itself?
Reply to Miss O.R. HitAny kind of creative exertion can be considered a type of product, and the sum total of exertion is called process. The Product (end result) is still a piece of the process.
Likewise, a product is completely reliant on process to exist. When you go to show an audience your newest poster, you are showing them the Product, as well as a piece of the process. Many designers will say that a finished product isn't really finished at all. Why? Because it's often part of an ongoing process.
There is a flaw with this question that wants to split process and product into seperate entities. This is a recipe for disaster, since a split can weaken your process or cheapen your product.
susan scott posted the following on December 1, 2008 at 6:40 am.
agree
Reply to susan scottTony Gregorich posted the following on December 1, 2008 at 2:30 pm.
The process is only important to the designer. But that in-itself makes it more important than the product, because without the designer and the process there would be no product. You can get a product from any point in the process, so the important thing is how the process plays out. It may seem like the industry has placed some sort of importance on the product, but that's really only the client's viewpoint. The industry itself still cares more about the process, as it's the only way to work and teach others.
Reply to Tony GregorichKatherine Wright posted the following on December 3, 2008 at 5:23 pm.
BUT, Tony, without the product, we have no industry, because then who is paying us to design these things? But, I also agree with what you said, I'm just being contrary.
Reply to Katherine WrightMiss O.R. Hit posted the following on December 5, 2008 at 8:56 pm.
AHA, without process we have no industry, because then who is designing these things? I say this topic is like asking which is more important. Teal or turquoise? Green apples or Granny Smith? 18-wheelers or semis?
Reply to Miss O.R. HitThere is no division, these terms "process" and "product" are one and the same.